img

img

welcome to Graduate Hospital

img BACK TO NEIGHBORHOOD
Thu
Oct 20
2011

Toll Bros. Presents to 2400 South St. to an Unimpressed SOSNA

Last night, representatives from Toll Bros. presented slightly revised plans for a massive condo and row home development at 2400 South St. to SOSNA, the neighborhood group for the Graduate Hospital neighborhood. Back in July, we did a write-up of this project, which proposes 59 condo units in one building, 66 stacked townhomes in four buildings, and 143 parking spaces. Check out our previous post for current images of the site. Here are some new renderings of the site’s possible future:

Site plan

Looking east on South St.

Corner of 24th and South Sts.

24th St.

Toll Bros. has met several times with the community and the near neighbors, and they’ve tweaked their plan slightly since we last heard about it. On the corner of 24th and South Sts., three units will have yard space on street level, ostensibly bringing more life to the street. Some parking has been moved underground to make this happen. In addition, the northern home of the vertical row of stacked townhomes will have street-level access, again bringing more of a presence to the street level.

While we see these changes as slight improvements on the initial plan, they are simply not sufficient alterations to a project with significant flaws.

Back in July, one of our two recommendations for the project was a change in the its interaction with Bainbridge St., ideally having a row of stacked homes front the street. Thanks to another Toll Bros. project, Naval Square, the southern side of the 2400 block of Bainbridge St. is a brick wall. The current plan would present pedestrians with a wall to the south and a fence to the north- not exactly a lively or safe streetscape, despite Toll Bros. belief that rear decks on stacked townhomes thirty feet away provide the necessary eyes on the street. C’mon guys, you can do better.

Current view of south side of Bainbridge St.

Rendering of the north side. Note the decks in the distance.

Our other suggestion was the addition of commercial space either on South St. or 24th St., adding a benefit to the community outside of the development. Toll Bros. appears to be completely opposed to this, based on last night’s meeting. They threatened that if the community demanded commercial space, then the entire project may be delayed for years. Representatives seemed to have a well-rehearsed litany of reasons for not including commercial space, including:

  • The neighborhood has plenty of retail and doesn’t really require more
  • The commercial corridor ends at 23rd St.
  • Near neighbors on South St. don’t want commercial space on the corner and won’t support the project if there is commercial space.
  • There is no demand from businesses for commercial space
  • Parking will become a problem
  • Trash collection and storage would be complicated
  • Residents don’t want to live above a commercial space
  • A deputy mayor agrees that commercial space is the wrong choice for the project
  • They are doing more to benefit the community with a marginal increase in residential units than they would with one or two commercial spaces
  • They are communists*

 
We could go through the list above and explain how their reasons range from somewhat reasonable to totally outrageous, but suffice to say that the community feels strongly that a commercial aspect is necessary.

Based on the project’s current design, roughly two-thirds of the interior of the first floor of the building that fronts 24th St. will be used for parking- again, no street presence. We suggest moving all of the parking underground (a move that Toll Bros. says would reduce the onsite parking by six spaces) and adding one or two commercial condo spaces. We wouldn’t even be all that upset if the designated commercial spaces reverted to residential use if they couldn’t be sold within a couple of years.

From a quick glance at the voting sheet, things didn’t go so well for Toll Bros. last night at SOSNA. Their ZBA hearing is next month. Hopefully, there will be some flexibility on both sides beforehand.

*Not really

15
COMMENTS
img
Posted in Graduate Hospital | Tagged , , | 15 Comments
  • strza

    Totally underwhelming proposal, but just to clarify, Toll Bros. didn’t construct that brick wall around Naval Square, it’s been there forever

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=608975509 Terry Nicol

    If community groups really are demanding more street level commercial space, rather than just more parking, then this city has come a long way.

  • Apfeldman

    Totally unimaginative plan and design. Did anyone comment about the architecture at the meeting?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WVOX4M5VWHZQY6BT44H3VMDIRM Dude Solarsystem

    It looks like every other Toll Bros project except this one is one monster steroids.

  • Eldondre

    are there any toll brothers projects with commercial space?

  • Anonymous

    Several people panned the architecture in fairly blunt terms. Someone said that it was a poor attempt to recreate classic Philly architecture. Someone else said that it looks like a bad Disney theme park building. Another person just said they were insulted.

  • Anonymous

    I think if it wasn’t so hideously fucking ugly, all the rest of the problems would go away. An architecturally interesting building there would go a long way. It is curious, though, that they think the 300-500 people that they want to live here wouldn’t have any interest in some commercial space. Like, really? Naval Square + this piece of shit + the neighborhood couldn’t support another bar or a supermarket? OR A FEDERAL DONUTS?

  • http://thisoldcity.com This Old City

    maybe this time they’ll sound insulate their units… the ones inside the gates have horrible noise problems.

  • http://twitter.com/brianbrews Brian Marsh

    Great example (if a few stories too tall for our site) to help prove that point.  A design like “303″ could actually incorporate the existing structure as well, right?  Toll is dumbing the development down with this entire faux Georgian style proposal (even if Naval Square sold like hot cakes).

  • Megansay2003

    Isn’t anything better than that dilapitaed looking parking lot? Jeez!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_AGVKE54ZXNZWMBGQWHOV6UDQHY martha

    I feel like they missed a big opportunity to have a street or pedestrian way connect with 25th Street. Good luck to all those people in the middle ever having a pizza delivery guy figuring out how the f- to find them. Legibility in the City.

    Also, I would have liked to see some commercial here, but I would suspect that adding a commercial use to the project now would entirely derail their financing (which is probably what they mean when they say it would cause a delay). Funding mixed-use projects right now is a serious pain. Thanks, financial institutions. However, it would be nice to see that this new population made the existing commercial spaces along South more viable, instead of just creating more competition.

  • http://nakedphilly.com/uncategorized/october-17th-23rd-the-top-four/ October 17th – 23rd: The Top Four | NakedPhilly

    [...] Toll Bros. Presents 2400 South St. to an Unimpressed SOSNA – Toll Bros. wants to build a massive new development in the Graduate Hospital neighborhood, [...]

  • charlesuk

    it is terrible. I do however question the need for businesses in the plan. There was so much opposition to new businesses opening on 21st and South because of the lack of parking and of course God forbid we have new Restaurants or bars come into our area!!! The noise! The traffic! People on the street after dark walking around! People having a good time!!! Oh no! I work in one of the local businesses and to be completely frank the people that live in naval Square aren’t frequenting the local business all that well. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Patrick-OConnell/1045799459 Patrick OConnell

    Really not happy with Toll’s approach to this corner.The commercial aspect is small by comparison to how the proposed project will look.A wall of apartments along 24th street combined with stacks of condo with garages,very close together in more rows between South and Bainbridge with little or no green space will look horrible.The density is incredible.

  • Devilspocket

    Toll has revised the plans for this project. Come see the new and improved plans tonight (Dec. 7) at SOSNA’s Zoning Workgroup Meeting: http://southofsouth.org/events/december-zoning-workgroup-meeting  6:30 at the SOSNA office (1901 Christian St.). This is your chance to review the plans prior to the ZBA hearing on Dec. 14. 

Have a Story for us?
Email Tips@Nakedphilly.com
With Photos & gossip