[...] Its dead Is Kater Street the NIMBY Capital of Philadelphia? | NakedPhilly Reply With Quote + Reply to [...]

That’s disgusting. Hey P&K, come open Bedford here in Northern Liberties. You’d be welcome with open arms.

These neighbors are idiots and are losing out on a great thing.  I hope that P&K continues to look in the neighborhood and that these neighbors more to the suburbs cause they can’t seem to handle the city life. 

Can you provide any more information on how this happened? Did PK not have a contract on the property? Did the seller renege?

And that is why this neighboorhood will never be anything than a ghetto….

Owner was unwilling to leave it tied up any longer as the appeal had already dragged on for some time and did not renew the agreement of sale.  He also did not renew OCF’s contract to list the home last month.

The immediate neighbors got a hold of the owner of the building and wallah….another great project bites the dust.

Why doesn’t Bedford open up in the corner property on Point Breeze Ave and Federal?

If someone opened a restaurant/bar there, they’d be a very smart person.

I’m sure people will disagree…but those people are stupid.  And wrong.  I’m right.

as a resident of the neighborhood, this is just beyond idiotic.  the neighbors were concerned about a new restaurant replacing….oh wait, another restaurant.  i spoke a few months ago with a west philly bar owner who was interested in going in on a new venture in grad hospital and referenced this debacle as a reason why he’s putting it off.

Come to the River Wards.

[...] Philly neighborhoods are the least NIMBY? This post got me thinking… Is Kater Street the NIMBY Capital of Philadelphia? | NakedPhilly Looks like anyone doing business in Graduate Hospital or Point Breeze has alot of trouble getting [...]

As a resident who lives within the frame of the photograph, I take offense to those who call the neighborhood a “ghetto”.  Kater Street is not Rittenhouse neighborhood street, but it is a far cry from the condition it was in 15 or 20 years ago.

That sucks!!! Always looking for a new place to go that’s within walking distance and I’m sure all my neighbors in Graduate Hospital would agree! Why not accept a new establishment like that with excitement and open arms?? Annoying.

ohhh god that sucks

This is very unfortunate – an opportunity missed to bring more foot traffic, activity and lighting to one of the core entrances to the neighborhood, let alone an amenity that this neighborhood very much lacks.  I guess those neighbors have never been mugged and have no appreciation for what more foot traffic does for the safety of the neighborhood or its residents.  Those neighbors should move to the suburbs.

 Okay that is just flat out ridiculous.  The neighbors opposing this probably grew up in “the city life”.  If you don’t agree with their decision, then fine.. but don’t ever try to talk like you know more about city-life than people who grew up in it.  Those people probably lived there before it was “up and coming”.

Oh, that’s why, is it?  I’m sure it has absolutely nothing to do with what happened to the neighborhood or the way people living in ghettos get completely ignored, right?  Na.. it’s because they opposed a fucking cafe.  How dare they!

oh, and you forgot to include the word “other” in there.

If you’re actually serious when you say that anybody who disagrees with you is wrong and stupid then I’ve got no words for that.  Wow.

It’s nice to see someone sticking up for their neighborhood.  That Philly pride is something too many places are lacking.  Honestly, how dare anybody snicker at calling anywhere a “ghetto”, as if that makes you better than them because you don’t live there and because you called it that.  Good for you for saying something.

Phillycb – Other than your taking offense to the use of “ghetto,” as a resident of Kater Street, do you have any reaction to your neighbors’ protestations and purchase of the property?

Pretty pathetic that you just scrolled through this board and rebutted everyone (which is the vast majority of the population) who disagrees with you. Get a life.

Care to tell us how much you and your neighbors paid for this property? 

G-Ho better watch out…if it’s not careful, it’ll be the next Manayunk: Always less than it could have been, and consistently overlooked by entrepreneurs and investors who didn’t want to deal with the Nanny-state neighborhood council.

It’s no wonder why there is always another strip outperforming lowly South Street West. NoLibs, Passyunk, Baltimore Ave, etc. What’s next? North Broad? W Fairmount?

The problem with G-Ho, which is why I never cared for it, is that many of the people there DO have a suburban mindset. Hence the garage-front-door bay window configuration on the new homes. Just the fact that it markets itself as the close-enough-to-Rittenhouse-but-not-on-top-of-it location sort of guarantees that you are going to get a good number of people in the neighborhood who think that Walnut Street is close enough and that the hood should be virtually entirely residential, save a snooze of a business here and there to provide your most basic amenities. Yes, just like the suburbs.

DRAT!!  So how much did it sell for?

We are fairly certain that corner is not available……heard something about a coffee shop trying to go there or something like that:)

Yes.  Move east.

LOL I should have been more exact…the former Munson Manor building…not the future home of the 2nd OCF coffeehouse. 

Preeti and Christopher Scalone….congratulations on your new home!

EAST EAST EAST!!!!

How long does the appeal take? If they went for a variance, and got the variance, shouldn’t there be an appeal within a certain amount of time? If the neighbors are well within their right to appeal, and they are as that is how it works everywhere in the country when variances are filed, then this process needs to be fixed as well from a timing perspective.

There are always going to be NIMBYs. And people who just want to stop anything, without regard for facts. I am sick and tired of complaining about them. They don’t read these blogs, and if they did, they wouldn’t care.

The new zoning code will help. But there will always be parcels that are not appropriately zoned and need variances. It is imperative that this process move as quickly as possible, through all possible steps, so that neighbors can no longer intentionally delay a process hoping the money behind the project backs out. Which is very frequently their strategy, as they know they are probably going to lose their appeal.

There aren’t that many appeals to zoning variances, and most of them would be pretty simple, and likely dismissed quickly based on existing standards in land use law unless the ZBA totally overreached.

This is very disappointing.  I live a few steps from Pub & Kitchen.  They are great neighbors.  I rarely hear any noise and they are constantly making improvements to their property and the neighborhood.  I feel much safer on the street since they moved in.  I hope they look for another place close by.

Ghetto? No. Dull bedroom community? Yes.

Tell the people in your neighborhood to go to community meetings. Get your voices heard.

You think they would have any interest in bringing Bedford Cafe to 22nd and Catherine?  Buyout the Lucky Day parcel?  With the new Ultimo coffee shop going in right across the street, Sidecar a block away and immediate neighbors who would welcome it with welcome arms (hint), it could be a good connector to continue revitalizing that corridor.

Wow. What selfish people.

I would like to set the record strait:
1.  What does Nimby capital of Philadelphia mean?  People who live on a very small block not wanting a residentially zoned property to be converted to commercial bar/resturant are not NIMBYs.  Asking people to tolerate a late hour establishment on a hundred percent residential block isn’t unreasonable.  The true meaning of NIMBY could be I want certain amenities as long as their not next to me! 
2.  You have no idea what is planed for this property so your statement that “The neighbors are buying the property. And don’t have any plans for it.
These kind people are, to our knowledge, going down in history (take
that with a shot of penicillin) as the first residents of Philadelphia
to purchase a property with absolutely no plan to develop it with the
sole purpose of preventing another party from moving forward with it” is complete speculation!! 

The reason why you don’t know what is going on is because you have never talked to a single resident on this block.  Furthermore, your 3rd grade English teacher is screaming run-on sentence!

The real travesty is that property owners had to not only spend very hard earned money to fight  to uphold the zoning code, but they decided it was cheaper to overpay for a property than fight it in court.  It is an extreme financial burden to be forced to purchase a property so someone else can’t develop it as a bar/restaurant on a 100% residential street.   

Fact:  The 19 and 20 hundred block of Kater were not notified of the SOSNA hearing to discuss the Bedford Cafe!  The meeting was held a day before the actual zoning notice was placed on the property.  The people who were there had no stake in the outcome and could have very possibley been there for the sole purose of supporting the project.  That has never happened in Philadelphia?

Fact:  when SOSNA was notified that the residence of these blocks were not notified SOSNA stated that the community had voted and it would be unfair to have another vote.  SOSNA set up a meeting of the immediate residence and the owners of the Pub and Kitchen.  When the residence voiced their concern the owners said they couldn’t change anything about their proposed project, ” it was integral to their business plan”. 

Fact: 71 of 102 households were in signed opposition to this project.  7 Households were for it and the remaining wouldn’t take a position or couldn’t be contacted.  Last I checked, 7-10 percent is a very small minority.  Furthermore, 5 of 6 adjoining property owners were against the zoning chage and the one person who supported was a renter!  The people who were in favor were people who wouldn’t be personally effected.  The reason the zoning code exists is to protect peoples investment in real estate!

Fact:  4 of 4 zoning board officials voted against the the change in zoning, in addition to the Philadelphia Planning Commission (PPC).  The PPC state ” it wasn’t part of the city plan and the applicant didn’t prove hardship” (Paraphrase).  After friends of P&K voiced strong opposition the case was held open for 30 days.  At the end of 30 days the board voted to approve.  What happened in between? 

Just because someone doesn’t agree with someone doesn’t make them a NIMBY!!!  People who don’t have to pay the consequences of a change in zoning should chastise the people who have to pay the consequences.  You have the right to request a change in zoning, but you shouldn’t do so at the expense of other.  Sure, you can lawyer up an hope that the other side crumbles, but that is being a bully. 

There are two sad facts about this event:  1.  The City of Philadelphia cares more about the generation of revenue that it citizens property rights.  2.  People who have a financial incentive to take the rights of property owners then attach the aggrieved as a NIMBY!  Sure, the owners of Pub and Kitchen have the right to ask for anything they want, but that doesn’t make their request justifiable when the cost of their actions are born by others.  Furthermore, the owner of this web site is was the owner of the listing agent for the property in question.  Clearly their point of view isn’t biased or slanted for their own personal gain.

What the hell are you talking about.  What do you have to lose?  How are residence of a neighborhood selfish when they want to protect their property right.  Selfish is the action of people who have nothing to lose attaching people who have to pay the consequences. 

They are unrealistic in there sale price.  OCF Holdings has put in several offers for that corner over the last year but they want a tremendous amount of money for it.

Chris and Preeti, you’ve done a great thing for the neighborhood. Many thanks.

There is so much factual BS in the post its not even funny.   My favorite classic NIMBY line is “we weren’t informed!!”  what a load of crap. I was at the sosna meeting that was held well in advance of the ZBA. The support was overwhelming.  NYMYS never want to show at these meetings because they look like lunatics when faced with even the slightest degree of reason or scrutiny.

Move back the burbs Loosers!!

The zoning code is in place to protect the rights of existing property owners.  People invest money based on the conditions when they purchase.  If other people could come behind them and change the code at will their would be no certainty that earlier investments would be protected.  The zoning code is very similar to patent protection for inventions.  There would be no reason to innovate if someone would steal your intellectual property.  Similarly, if you purchase real estate valued for one use and that use is changed your investment is jeopardized. 

Your statement “There are always going to be NIMBYs. And people who just want to stop
anything, without regard for facts. I am sick and tired of complaining
about them.” is actually guilty of being “without regard for facts”!  I can assure you that I am a 1000 times more knowledgeable of the facts than you, but yet you speak as an authority. 

The reason why most appeals are not opposed is that most people don’t have either the time or money.  Just because people disagree with your opinion doesn’t make them wrong.  NIMBY is a prerogative created by the mining industry to minimize and discredit those opposed to mountain top removal.  Fighting for what you love and have earned is self preservation.  Trying to take what isn’t yours is theft! 

I love that it’s always SOSNA’s job to go out and personally inform these lazy jerks. The meetings are posted online, in same place, on the same day of the month year after year. 

No one else had a problem showing up (there were like 40 people there). If you too lazy to following whats going on in your community don’t bitch when you miss an issue that effects your block.

Fact: the Scalones got 71 people to sign in opposition to the restaurant because they went door to door representing the project as a “corner bar.” Many residents who “opposed” it were furious when they found out it was a restaurant proposed by the PK guys. The Scalones and the other neighbors have every right to oppose the project, but the fact that they misrepresented it was extremely dishonest.

Fact: Kater is a half block from super-quiet South street. Kater is hardly a hidden side street and a well-run restaurant wouldn’t have disturbed anyone. It’s a shame.

Honest to god how much of a psychopath do you have to be to go and buy the building. I can just imagine them saying “Oh yeah?! Well we’ll just buy the building!”. PLEASE move to the suburbs where you belong.

“The reason the zoning code exists is to protect peoples investment in real estate!”

Well no, not really, although conservation of property value is a minor aspect.

http://www.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.dll/Pennsylvania/philadelphia_pa/title14zoningandplanning/chapter14-100generalprovisions?f=templates$fn=document-frame.htm$3.0#JD_14-101

 (1)     Chapters 14-100 through 14-1800, inclusive, of this Title are enacted to promote the public health, safety, order and general welfare by regulating and restricting the location, size, bulk and use of buildings; the height and size of buildings and other structures, percentage of lot that may be occupied, the size of yards, courts and other open spaces, the density of population, and the location, use and occupancy of buildings, structures and land for residential and non-residential purposes. The provisions of these Chapters are designed to lessen congestion in the streets, to secure safety from fire, panic and other dangers, to provide adequate light and air, to avoid undue concentration of population and to facilitate the adequate provision of transportation, water, sewerage, schools, parks and other public requirements; reduce dirt, odor, noise, soot and noxious fumes; to conserve property value and to encourage the most appropriate use of land; provide for the administration and enforcement of such provisions, regulations and restrictions, and to provide penalties for violations thereof.

Are you on glue?  Supporting something that is a benefit to you and a liability to someone else is selfish.  You are not the arbiter of who lives where?  You don’t agree with me, no G Ho for you!  Clearly you haven’t lived in the city long because Philadelphia is notorious for changing block by block.  What happens three blocks away has little consequence!

The fact that 609 S 20th will not be a raw bar isn’t going to cause anyone grievous harm, but changing zoning from residential, and yes the property was zoned residential, does harm those who purchased their home thinking they were going to live next to other homeowners. 

If you want Pub and Kitchen next to you then zone the house across from yours, if you own one.  Stop worrying what happens on my block and I will stop responding to your vapid postings!   

Dear Grad Ho Resident,

I am very sorry for making your existence in this neighborhood unbearable.  You might want to take your own advice.  Why would you believe that people who don’t agree with you should move to the suburbs?  That seems to be a bit narrow minded.  Living in a city actually requires a person to except all types of people of different races, creeds, socioeconomic backgrounds, religions and beliefs.   Maybe you should study the Philadelphia crime maps.  I can assure you that 20th and Kater is a very safe area.  Furthermore, the areas with the highest crime are where there is the greatest concentration of bars.  The city needs to be an environment for all types of lifestyles, not just those with disposable time and money.  

What is pathetic is that you take such notice of a location that is 30-40 blocks from your house?  The reason why the Manayunk residence prevent further development is that unchecked development makes living in their neighborhood less desirable to permanently reside there.  Sure, it is great to move there for three years after college, endless summer.  At some point you grow up and live life.
Boy, I wish some frat boy would come and yell outside my house, then throw up, and the drive drunk back to NJ.  Wow, that sounds great.
 
As for your claim “It’s no wonder why there is always another strip outperforming lowly South Street West…”, the houses in the area continue to increase in value without a bar on every corner?

People should be allowed to do what ever they want and where ever they want?  Why not, they said it wouldn’t bother anyone and be a great asset to the neighborhood?

Furthermore, the “garage-front-door bay window configuration on the new homes” are built by developers, not homeowners.  Maybe the people who are ruining the neighborhood are those who want to change it for profit?  Many of us have live here for some time and live in rehabilitated row homes. 

Why do you care what is happening so far from where you live.  Clearly you choose your neighborhood because you are a gritty urban dweller who knows better than all around you.  Why wouldn’t you allow us backward folk to fester in our own waste?  This only makes your neighborhood cooler, hipper, and more desirable to others.

I left N Libs because I got tired of urine on my front step, but I guess you like that???

Not even sure what you are disagreeing with here. And my comment is not actually directed at this particular situation. This so-called NIMBYs here may actually be correct (though I have no evidence to prove that) with their arguments. But they should be proven correct or incorrect with an appeal QUICKLY, so as to prevent frivolous appeals from holding up a correct granting of a variance.

So yes, you are possibly more knowledgeable of the facts pertaining to this particular case, but you missed my point. I don’t care if you are right or wrong, I care that the system functions efficiently.

This use to be a business at some point. Did the zoning change for the fact that it sat empty for so long? So for you to say that this block is 100% residential is sad. It seems that there use to be a business there, why not bring it back?

The reason Manayunk is so appealing to frat boys who yell and scream is directly a result of the neighborhood not understanding zoning and development. They limited bars/restaurants, thus driving up the price for such establishments to the point that smaller business couldn’t open. Thus the takeover by the larger, louder, Miller Lite special, frat boy party crowd establishments. Same thing in Old City.

I understand the desire to protect the neighborhood. But sometimes the methods don’t work, and wind up creating the worst possible scenario.

That’s some Preeti and Christopher Scaloney Baloney right there. Gonna DEFINITELY give them a piece of my mind if I see them standing outside. Don’t worry I’ll get zoning approval for the section of street I’ll shout at them from….unless these idiots go and buy the street too. They own the house with the stupid looking wave on it right? This is gonna be my new new thing. My old new thing was going to be stopping at Bedford on my everyday walk down 20th.

First, Bobby this isn’t an attach on your opinion, only an attempt to provide you with some background detail. 

The original existing business was a luncheonette that closed at 1PM.  Originally the neighbors were not against another business opening in that location.  No one would have been opposed to another luncheonette, but that wasn’t what was being proposed.  What was proposed was a full service restaurant/bar with extended hours, closing at 1AM on the weekends.  Furthermore, what made the neighbors angry was how several events occurred that didn’t seem like a coincidence. 
1.  No one on the two adjoining blocks was notified that there was a meeting to discuss P&Ks plans.  Do you think neighbors who put up a fight as long and as hard as ours wouldn’t have shown up to find out what was proposed; of course we would have?
2.The day after the SOSNA meeting the ZBA zoning notice went up on the property.
3.  When we called SOSNA and told them that we were not notified they said there was nothing they could do.  We informed them that their by-laws required that they provided notification, but to know avail.  Furthermore, the SOSNA staff person spent 15 minutes telling us the P&K wanted us to be their best customer?  They were not listening to us because they had already made up their mind. 
4.  After several phone calls and letters from several different residents SOSNA agreed to set up a meeting with the owners of the P&K.  At the meeting the owners dismissed every issue the residents had.  They said they couldn’t change their proposal in any way because it was integral to their business plan, period.   At this point it is only speculation, but the neighbors felt that the owners of P&K didn’t care what we said because they already had the support of the neighborhood group and didn’t need to compromise. 
5.  After the  meeting with Ed Hacket and Dan Clark the neighbors went door to door getting signatures.  I believe we had 79 signatures or 71 of the 101 households located on the 1900-2000 block of kater who were against the proposed project.   There was overwhelming opposition of the immediate neighbors. 
6.  We were told repeatedly that we should trust P&K.  That they would be great neighbors, but why would we believe that when the entire process that lead up to that point appeared to be deliberate and predetermined?  This entire process stunk of collusion.  We were steam rolled and were not going to sit  by and let this happen.
7.  Immediately we were attached on the blogs, including by members of the SOSNA board, as NIMBYs because we were unwilling to allow others to determine how our block was going to evolve.  They never asked us what we thought, then attacked us for opposing their plans?
8.  The property was zoned residential, but had a use variance to run a luncheonette.  This variance was forfeited when the owner let the property go vacant for 7 years.  We lived here the entire time while this property lay vacant.  We put up with the trash and graffiti.  This property could have easily been rehabbed at anytime, just as every other house on the block.  The failure of the owner to maintain their property was used as a justification to change the zoning of the property?   Variances are supposed to be used to provide relief when a property can’t be utilize in compliance with existing zoning.  Variances are not intended to provide relief from self induced hardship!  I could put my house on the market for 1 million dollars, wait two years, then say I need a variance to change the use of my property because I can’t sell it.  That is what happened here.  The owner had a 800 sq ft dilapidated property on the market for $320,000.  Of course it didn’t sell, it was asking $406 sq ft for a shell!  If this property was listed between $150-175,000 it would have sold in short order.

In closing, this property was purchased by a neighbor who felt strongly that the property should remain residential.  I think this demonstrates how strongly people felt that the proposed Bedford Cafe wasn’t appropriate for a street like Kater.  If people want more commercial they should engage in civic dialog that doesn’t alienate those who are most effected, causing the effected to fight against the proposal!  I can personally tell you that many of the people who went on to fight the proposed Beford Cafe actually wanted commercial on that corner, but not as it was proposed and not after they way due process was subverted to guarantee a predetermined outcome.   If the owners of P&K were willing to compromise they would have a completed project!

This project was approved at a community meeting, and the variances were granted by the ZBA. The voices of the neighborhood were heard, but a small group of neighbors filed suit to stop it. 

Yo Kater. Pipe down. I’ll give you an education. There was a time when Manayunk was considered more desirable than even your dump of a trash-strewn neighborhood (i.e. Point Breeze North), and the homes were priced as such. Do you know why it is no longer? Because neighbors came out and vehemently fought every establishment with a liquor license, including established, respected restauranteurs with gold plate pedigrees. Let’s call it, cutting off your nose to spite your face. Because believe or not, you ignorant nazi, people with money actually want to live near nice restaurants and bars. It’s why they live in a city. 

Now, as Manayunk continues to vehemently fight every restaurant proposal with fervor, let’s see what’s closed. Hmmmm. Ligne Roset. Restoration Hardware. Banana Republic. My guess, Pottery Barn will follow. It’s now down to tribal incense shops and useless tchotchke stores. There is no longer enough foot traffic on the street to support the local retail. You know why? Because local retail wants foot traffic. Do you know what attracts foot traffic? Nice, destination restaurants, like P&K. And this is why Manayunk flounders. The only people who want to live there are college students who can load 6 people into a house, split the rent, then go to the Brew Pub or Grape Street Tavern. Sophisticated people with means bypass the neighborhood for better alternatives, including those with I don’t know, good dining options near by.

And where exactly in Northern Liberties did you leave because you got tired of urine on your front step? Unlikely story. Regardless, we’re better off without you. Now, development can continue unhindered by neanderthals like yourself. I won’t point out that we have many more good dining options than you though, with more on the way. Enjoy your suburban experience, you *ackass.

1.  It would seem that we won, though the cost financially and emotionally was high.
2.  Who sounds like a sore loser?  You are the person is using a pejorative to describe people who don’t agree with your point of view. 
3.  Just because the ZBA ruled in favor didn’t mean that it passed legal muster.  The ZBA is overturned several times a year for not properly administering the city zoning code.  Furthermore, the ZBA voted unanimously 4-0 to deny until supporters made a large fuse at the ZBA hearing.  At this point they left the record open for 30 days.  during this time the applicant never proved hardship.  Furthermore, the planning commission stated at the hearing that the proposed variance was in opposition to the City Plan, the applicant didn’t prove hardship, and shouldn’t be approved. 

This is an example of people lawyering up in an attempt to force the opposition to fold.  Well, we didn’t fold.  Furthermore, certain individuals determined that it was tactically prudent to purchase the building instead of fighting in court; The outcome would be the same, the property would remain residential.  Check Mate

*they’re, *planned, *possibly, *purpose, *residents, *residents, *residents, *change, *affected, *than, *its, *attack

Your third grade spelling teacher is screaming, “I’ve created a NIMBY!”

Hi Jay,

Very good post.  I like to interact with people who base their conversations on a bedrock of fact.  Your post was a very good starting point and I thank you for interjecting real information and not speculation or unfounded pronouncements.

Thank you for allowing me to refine my statement.  It is very hard to succinctly state ones position or belief.   One of the reasons for the zoning code is to protect property value.  It would seem that it is also to “reduce dirt, odor, noise, soot, and noxious fumes; to conserve property value and to encourage the most appropriate use of land…’  Your post demonstrates the complexity of social organization.  I don’t see any where the protection of a citizen’s right to eat at raw bars or drink beers, though I see several by-products of a commercial restaurant (noise, odor, noxious fumes) that the zoning code protects us from.

Why have a zoning code at all if it is changed it every time someone wants to? 

Furthermore, if people cared some much about this project why didn’t anyone come and talk to the neighbors?  Why was there never one attempt to mediate the dispute?  Why didn’t SOSNA, our community group, think it necessary to try and mediate?  Why wouldn’t the Bedford Cafe project warrant a second community meeting that could be attended by immediate neighbors?  Second meetings for decks setbacks are held all the time, but converting a residential property into a commercial property on a 100% residential block doesn’t warrant additional input; especially from the people who would be directly effected.  These questions will never be answered, but they do cause one to ponder and ask additional questions. 

This fight is over.  I am sorry that some people were looking forward to the proposed project, but the dice have been cast.  I don’t blame the developers for doing what they do for a living, developing projects; though I have issue with their methods.  My real concerns are with SOSNA for their complete lack of transparency, commitment to due process, and advocating one groups interest over another without allowing input!  SOSNAs actions generated hostility and conflict among the neighbors SOSNA tasked themselves with representing.  SOSNA failed their primary mission ” to improve the quality of life and serve as a
resource for residents and businesses by actively encouraging and
promoting neighborhood activities and civic involvement”!  The end result of their actions and non actions are hard feelings and no new commercial establishment! 

Sincerely,
 
Kater Resident

Nope. Haddonfield is a dry town.  Sounds perfect for you.

Setting aside the debate regarding the property, “Kater Resident” does raise a valid point regarding Naked Philly, owned by OCF Realty, providing coverage on properties that OCF Realty is marketing.  Not that there’s anything inherently wrong with a real estate agency running a real estate blog.  I just think Naked Philly would garner more trust and respect from readers if they provided a disclosure when OCF has a financial stake in a property they are posting about.  A little more transparency goes a long way, especially when your tagline is “We’ve Got Nothing To Hide.”

FYI
“He also did not renew OCF’s contract to list the home last month.”

Who is the lunitic?  Your works speak for themselves.  “NYMYS never want to show at these meetings because they look like
lunatics when faced with even the slightest degree of reason or
scrutiny.”  That statement has no validity what so ever!  If we are going to take a leap of faith it is much more likely that people who don’t want dissent don’t invite people who my not agree with them  rather than neighbors thinking that not going to a community meeting about the change in zoning of a property was going to end up in their favor; really?.  It would have been much more constructive for the neighborhood if those who are directly effect, in legal terms have standing, are invited to participate.  

Fact, the SOSNA meeting was held the night before the ZBA notice was put on the property in question.  The ZBA hearing was 14 days after the notice was placed on the property.   Fact, surrounding neighbors didn’t get notified so they didn’t get to comment at the SOSNA zoning meeting. 

If you want to stick to the facts and not speculation, perjoritives, and unsubstantiated claims I will happily debate you any day of the week.  Calling people lunatics because they don’t agree with you seem a little extreme.  Do you think your comments actually make people think having you come drink next to their house is a good idea?

Chiming in here — Jay — KR is actually more or less right.  Zoning and land use law evolved from and remains subject to the overarching body of Constitutional jurisprudence in the United States.  You know, “life, liberty and property” and all that jazz? 
I think you both get credit for your answers though, because Philadelphia’s Zoning Code governs land use restriction here while remaining subject to the Constitutional prohibition against government deprivation of property without due process.  The passage of the Zoning Code that you cite simply sets forth legitimate local government concerns that are intended to withstand constitutional scrutiny.  If the Code said “This Title is established to keep the hot side hot and the cold side cold,” it would not help the Code to withstand such scrutiny. 
All this should help explain why there is no Bedford Cafe currently — the property was not zoned to permit it and neighbors have a Constitutional Due Process right to oppose by taking the ZBA determination to court.  (What the folks who are so angry at the Kater Street neighbors apparently don’t want to acknowledge is that the near neighbors’ interests are superior to theirs — this is not fact, it’s law.  No amount of name-calling will change that, ever.  I doubt that’s much consolation for the Kater Street folks who I bet have been pretty upset over all this.)  Anyway, that due process is exactly what the Kater Street neighbors employed to challenge the variance, and, in my opinion, rightfully so.  There is no hardship at this location.  There is absolutely nothing, other than the resources or will of the site’s owners, to prohibit residential development.  As to resources, Pennsylvania law is clear that cost is not relevant to the determination of whether a hardship exists. 
Of course, I know for a fact that a residential structure is possible here — my lot is almost exactly the same size and my family manages just fine.  So, I’ve got to more or less side with KR on this one, but like I said, you’re also partially right.  These things often need to be looked at from a wider perspective, however. 
Best,
OldSage

A) why live in a city if you aren’t open to businesses opening nearby.
B). When we relo’d to Philly I specifically told my realtor no kater st. It’s not what I would consider a good street. I consider it more of an over grown alley.
C) you are proving everyone’s point about kater

Listen here, young man.  I have a mind to take you over my knee.  Does your mother know you’re using the computer without supervision?

Why is it anyone’s responsibility to notify you jerks?  All the SOSNA meetings are posted WAY in advance. No one else has a problem showing up.  Don’t blame the world because your lazy.

All these D-bags need to have their house’s egged. 

Care to tell us where you heard or read that the areas with the highest crime are where the greatest concentration of bars are at.  

Oh dear, oh dear.  Precious, if you’re inciting violence of any sort, you should really think better of it. You know, I sometimes think back to when I was younger and the neighborhood was different.  I recall a time, shortly after I moved into the neighborhood, there was a fire at a rowhome on my block.  Thinking back, I feel fortunate that my home was separated by an alley.  Oh my, I recall hearing screams: “get a mattress! get a f__ing mattress!” and of course, it being 1997 in G-Ho, I’m certain it’s those nasty hookers on the corner.  Oh dear, I’m sorry for my profanity, but this is a safe place for senior exploration isn’t it?  Well, anyway, it’s a full fledged fire next door!  And I knew those neighbors.  Not well, mind you, but I knew them to be fornicating sinners.  But they didn’t clutter up their sidewalks too much.  So, at about 3:00 in the morning, I was out there with my neighbors, catching precious belongings tossed from a burning third floor window.  The young lady herself jumped, and landed safely, thanks be to the almighty (and that young PCOM student, Javier, bless his heart).  Anyway, I’m not sure if you can tell where I’m going with this, but let’s just say… it’s good to have neighbors.  And, frankly, it’s unwise to offend neighbors as well, dear.  Thank goodness for you bringing this important subject to light!  You’re most likely a wonderful, soft, dough-ey person who could really use a cheek-pinching!  Gosh, I hope to see you soon!

Stop getting your panties in a bunch and move on.  So Bedford Cafe didn’t happen, you can still get your drink on at P&K a couple of blocks up, or Ten Stone, walk a little further, there’s Sidecar, Resurrection, etc.  Or walk further up to Rittenhouse and there’s a plethora of choices there, which is why I love living here. Shoot, if I had the money, I would buy that place too and have it done to my liking and make money off it (*insert evil laugh here*).  Personally, I would rather see a bagel shop (“NYC Style” bagels please!), an ice cream shop (a-la Franklin Fountain), or a breakfast/”luncheonette” like Cafe Lutecia or Ants Pants go in that place.  I just hope they do something else with it besides having it vacant.    

Residents of Kater, you aren’t going to win the hearts and minds of your fellow neighborhood residents, so stop trying. You got what you wanted – no development on your corner. The consequences for your perceived win are that you are going to hear how unpopular your actions are over and over and over again. You are all adults, you made this decision, so live with the reaction and stop wasting everyone’s time on boards like this.

What would go a long way is if you figured out a way to get those *very* deep pockets together again and turned the space into something that contributed positively to the neighborhood community.

What?

“Chiming in here — Jay — KR is actually more or less right.  Zoning and
land use law evolved from and remains subject to the overarching body
of Constitutional jurisprudence in the United States.  You know, “life,
liberty and property” and all that jazz?”

False. Where did you to law school? Oh, that’s right you probably didn’t, you feckless thug.

Those are all great ideas. And sadly because of the residence of Jerk street you’ll see none of them.

Perhaps I should revise my suggestion to say, “any property OCF has had involvement with.”  Losing a contract doesn’t make you more objective.

Dear Ted,

You talk as if you are the omniscient presence of Graduate Hospital, speaking for all.  First things first, the reason I respond to comments posted on this site is that I will not allow misleading and non factual statements go unchallenged; at least not comments pertaining to me.  I am under no illusions that I will change the minds of a vocal few.  Five people who continuously post the same response to every person who doesn’t agree with them doesn’t have the mandate of popular sentiment!  I comment because I want to give reasonable people an alternative view point which they can use to formulate their own opinion!  If this makes people who make unsubstantiated claims look foolish then all the better.

I know I speak for the majority of my Neighbors, I spoke to them.  There are two couples who live on the block that are friends of P&K owners, they didn’t agree.  There are three households who wanted the Cafe, but understood why we would object, hence, signed our petition.  There were two households who refused to sign the petition.  As for the rest, they signed the petition, although I was unable to contact roughly 10-15 households!  Everyone else dosn’t have legal standing, hence, their opinion is just an opinion with little legal relevance. 

Very little of what is posted here has any value at all.  I will go further by saying it has a negative value by creating unnecessary hostilities, dividing neighbors rather than building communities.  Here is just a couple: GHo “All these D-bags need to have their house’s egged.”  Or, Guest’s constructive comment “That’s some……(names removed)Baloney right there. Gonna
DEFINITELY give them a piece of my mind if I see them standing outside.
Don’t worry I’ll get zoning approval for the section of street I’ll
shout at them from….unless these idiots go and buy the street too.
They own the house with the stupid…(location removed) ? This is
gonna be my new new thing. My old new thing was going to be stopping at
Bedford on my everyday walk down 20th.”  Does valid civic comment include egging someone’s home and verbally accosting someone who you disagree with?  Should these comments go without challenge? 

Here is a good question: why would the administrator of this site post the names of the people who purchased the property, unless it was an act of retribution?  It takes a lot more though and effort to post something factual than it does to flame derogatory comments at people who have never done you any harm!  And yes, no one has been harmed because they can’t eat raw oysters and drink craft liquors at 609 S 20th Street.  What has been harmed in this process is faith in our community group who failed miserably to manage this process and our council person who didn’t take action because she didn’t want to get in the middle.  I applaud people who are passionate in what they believe, but have no time for those who will stop at nothing to get what they want. 

Everyone has a right to their opinion, but that doesn’t mean they are correct or have the right to make derogatory comments without rebuttal.  We are not talking about someone being denied civil liberties.  We are talking about someone being denied the ability to change zoning because they thought they had a good idea and wanted make money doing so.  We are talking about all property owners right to have confidence that when they make a decision to purchase property, based on the existing conditions, they will not suffer harm because someone comes after them and wants to changes the zoning of a property next or close to an earlier property owner; period! 

And yes, I am an adult and can handle name calling.  Can you handle people not sitting back and taking the insults without fighting back.  I would think that reasonable adults wouldn’t be publicly insulting those they don’t agree with or have ever meet, but maybe I am an idealist?!

In closing,

“The
accusation of nimbyism almost always occurs when there are two sets of real
conflicting interests involved, and rather than debate the merits of the
situation, and acknowledge the real damage to the interests of one party, as
well as the profits of the other, the advocates of development resort to
personal denigration. To call someone a nimby is to make the suggestion that he
or she has illegitimate motives as a way of trying to discredit their arguments
on the merits of the development.” http://hicklingvillagenorfolk.com/2010/12/30/editorial-in-praise-of-the-nimby-and-of-nimbyism/

I hope I have added to the dialoged.  If I haven’t added content then at least I feel better for trying.  Have a great day!  PS:  Although my comments may be laced with sarcasm my last comment isn’t.

I said it before, but since you continue to type the same thing perhaps this bears repeating.  If you were content with your actions; if you thought that you were truly right, you would not feel the need to write absurdly long posts in response to everything said here.  You obviously know that what you did was underhanded and selfish.

You got your way, but as Ted said there are consequences for your actions.  Some of your immediate neighbors may be behind you or are at least indifferent, the same can not be said be said for the greater gradho area.  As a resident and HOME OWNER in the immediate area I can tell you that I am not at all pleased and NO ONE that I have talked to is pleased either.

I’m an adult so I am not going to threaten you or anything like that.  There will be no egging or meeting you on the street or any other juvenile nonsense.  You will just have to live there, knowing that you are disliked by your neighbors and are a pariah in your community.  You will have to live there, knowing that aside from a select few, everyone around you wishes you would move away, wishes you would leave because our community would be better without you.

I hope victory feels good.

[...] about this project, we got the sense that a middle ground could eventually be negotiated and that a ‘Bedford Cafe’ scenario was unlikely [...]

Kater Resident: you really need to learn the difference between “affect” and “effect”.

[...] who never knew or don’t recall, Clark surely still bears wounds from a zoning fight that was ultimately lost at the corner of 20th & Kater, when neighbors who stood in opposition to his pla…. Nine months later, the building that could have been a new neighborhood hub remains vacant. [...]

[...] could have been. As you may recall, some brave neighbors stepped up to the plate back in January and purchased this property, saving the community from the atrocity that would have been the Bedford Cafe. Ah, what a welcome [...]

[...] Rodman Street, we officially anoint you the new NIMBY capital of Philadelphia. Your move, Kater Street. [...]